♥ PosetteForever ♥

Hi all <br /> <br /> just for discussion <img src="https://www.posetteforever.com/images/smiles/biggrin.gif" alt="" /> <br /> <br /> I use 3D programms to get a 3D feel out of the renders, and I think, too much postwork changes the result to 2D again. <br /> <br /> Me myself uses postwork only to correct some errors in rendering if at all... <br /> Just to keep the depth. <br /> <br /> Don´t get me wrong, I appreciate the work GP and the others do in Photoshop and don´t want to disrepect them. <br /> <br /> Just my opinion <img src="https://www.posetteforever.com/images/smiles/eusa_think.gif" alt="" /> <br /> <br /> tell me, what you think.... <br /> <br /> so long

I must agree with you Ahjah. I use postwork in the same way when I use! <img src="https://www.posetteforever.com/images/smiles/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

As for the post, ahem (Screwball tries to explain <img src="https://www.posetteforever.com/images/smiles/bduh.gif" alt="" /> )Poser to me was never ment to be used as <br /> a 3D tool unless it was put into 3D.As in animation.It was always for me an extention of the other software such as Bryce,Vue,Photoshop and others.As far as poser it is what it says.Posing a human or animal.But there are some flaws that have to be hid.Movies in animation do touch ups.I first got poser and found out real quick that you need alot of outside help or it well take you awhile to build all the textures and all the models required to make your art.Some of my ideas go way out there and I find it impossible to show people what I am trying to get across with out doing something with another software.Special effects are impossible without Photoshop or Image Ready from Adobe.It puts the extra bells and whistles sort to speak.Your work Ahjah is wonderful.But again that makes your style.I can tell alot of artists style just buy looking at their art here.Like I said I wouldn't want it anyother way.If there where rules then I guess I would give it up.The art that everyone makes has believe it or not a theme to it no matter what kind of art you make.It is called Free Will.Thats what makes this site great Ahjah, it is your opinion and I respect that as a friend.I think it is a wonderful post.It gets you thinking. <img src="https://www.posetteforever.com/images/smiles/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

I´m happy, you got me right <br /> <br /> I´m far from critcising any techniques anybody uses in their way to express their moods and ideas. <br /> Art has to be free and everyone can (must) find his or her own way to find it out. <br /> <br /> It was just. that I experienced, that 3D renders loose their depth, if postworked (too?) much. <br /> If this is the aim of the artist, it´s no problem for me. I only don´t like it for my own work. <br /> Sometimes when I look around some galleries ( not especially our one, just galleries..), some people dont´t seem to think about it, they just "overpostwork" it, and I think to myself: "this pic would have been better less postworked", and it makes me a little sad...

I agree with ahjah in that some pieces are more postwork than anything else. <br /> I use only what is necessary for joint touch-up, clothing, etc. <br /> Most of my previous renders were straight Poser 4 renders. <br /> I had to use postwork in some of the Starry Trek panels for the effects, but that was <br /> about it. <br /> Spending 15 minutes to render in Poser and 6 hours in Photoshop makes no sense to me. <br /> The more postwork that an image has, the less it is a Poser render. <br /> It is a Photoshop image. <br /> However, anyone can do what they like as far as postwork is concerned and I don't think any less <br /> of anyone who does a lot of postwork. <br /> I believe I had a thread where I mentioned this last year. <br /> I am more impressed by straight Poser renders, because it takes a lot of skill to produce something <br /> that only requires minor touch-ups. <br /> That's my opinion. <br /> <br /> <img src="https://www.posetteforever.com/images/smiles/biggrin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="https://www.posetteforever.com/images/smiles/biggrin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="https://www.posetteforever.com/images/smiles/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

Some people use poser renders as base for work in photoshop too. <br /> What you might think over-postworked might for the artist be exactly what they wanted. <br /> It's like music, there's tons of different mixed styles, that's how art is. <br /> And as Kenny said, poser is at times limited and needs outside help. Sometimes more than 'normal'. <br /> <br /> There is no spoon. Just a giant set of cutlery. Eat with what you prefer.

I tend to agree with both sides of the coin here, I like to try and achieve the picture that I have in my mind's eye mostly with little postwork except for adding some lighting and maybe some touch up work. But then on saying that sometimes I want to achive a look for something that just cannot be acomplished by poser work alone..so then I use my photoshop filters and extra little touches to achieve that...but at the end of the as I always say ...the beauty of art is being able to think outside the box and as you all agree the art is in the eye of the artist who creates it....great discussion by the way.

I prefer not to postwork....it is NOT because I can't <img src="https://www.posetteforever.com/images/smiles/wink.gif" alt="" /> I tend to use it to hide mistakes rather than to enhance. Actually that's a big fat lie now that I think about it because I use the illumination effects in PSP7 all the time. It comes to something when I can't trust myself <img src="https://www.posetteforever.com/images/smiles/eusa_doh.gif" alt="" />

Programs like poser have limits, the postwork is the way to avoid these limits. I tend to work more on the morphs and the textures of the models instead of postworking, but I'm impressed by the postwork techniques of very skilled artist and I try to learn from them. The rendering process is a 3d->2d conversion, what we saw in the rendered image is the limit of the software, we can leave it as it is, if we are satisfied, or try to enanche it. I think that render an already good pictures without postworking is more difficult that obtain the same effect with postwork. <img src="https://www.posetteforever.com/images/smiles/eusa_think.gif" alt="" /> <img src="https://www.posetteforever.com/images/smiles/eusa_think.gif" alt="" /> Thinking about it we can add a special category to the album for non-postworked pictures, it should be a real challenge <img src="https://www.posetteforever.com/images/smiles/biggrin.gif" alt="" /> ... <br /> <br /> In any case, this is my only non postworked picture:

wow if that is without any postwork it is really great...just out of curiosity if you did no postwork how did you get the flames etc in there..is it a prop?

Yes it' a prop with it's transparency map, he used three of them for each flame rotated on the y axis, if you need them I'll search where I find them <img src="https://www.posetteforever.com/images/smiles/biggrin.gif" alt="" /> !

yes please that would be really cool as I have wanted something like that for a while

Mmmmh... <img src="https://www.posetteforever.com/images/smiles/eusa_think.gif" alt="" /> <img src="https://www.posetteforever.com/images/smiles/eusa_think.gif" alt="" /> <img src="https://www.posetteforever.com/images/smiles/eusa_think.gif" alt="" /> I remember to have downloaded it from a jap site, I'll check my ZIPs collection, check this thread tomorrow...

....Knowing his lazyness is better for you to check it the next year <img src="https://www.posetteforever.com/images/smiles/eusa_snooty.gif" alt="" /> <img src="https://www.posetteforever.com/images/smiles/eusa_snooty.gif" alt="" /> <img src="https://www.posetteforever.com/images/smiles/eusa_snooty.gif" alt="" />

<img src="https://www.posetteforever.com/images/smiles/icon_redface.gif" alt="" /> <img src="https://www.posetteforever.com/images/smiles/icon_redface.gif" alt="" /> <img src="https://www.posetteforever.com/images/smiles/icon_redface.gif" alt="" /> ( <img src="https://www.posetteforever.com/images/smiles/heartbeat.gif" alt="" /> )

I am sure he will find it for me...I have faith in him...although I did have to spank him over the D&R game.. <img src="https://www.posetteforever.com/images/smiles/lol.gif" alt="" />

" I fee cowardly " in AD&R <img src="https://www.posetteforever.com/images/smiles/eusa_whistle.gif" alt="" /> <img src="https://www.posetteforever.com/images/smiles/eusa_whistle.gif" alt="" /> <img src="https://www.posetteforever.com/images/smiles/eusa_whistle.gif" alt="" />

Poser doesnt do those itty bitty details that you need or would like in your images - I use PS alot for 80% of my work if i am rendering in Poser alone. <br /> <br /> I also render in Vue - and i like how that comes out so not much postwork is required there. <br /> <br /> but i do add details with my brushes etc to my images - that just makes my images very ME looking.

I like to do as littel postwork as possible to get the desired results. At the same time to little postwork will fail to properly capture the vision that the artist has for his or her work. But if Poser is being used as it was firtinteded to be that is a different story. Rember that poser was not at first desiged to generate anything new a fiished work. It was a visualizaton tool for traditional artist such as a computerized sketch that would be painted over. Also as a blocking tool for photographers, to test poses and show them to clients and the models before shooting begins. It can still be used this way, and am sure that some artits do. For such situations, this is not a question of postwork for there is none. Poser generates teh prework to prpare for the main process.

I think postwork is an important part of CG art, I never was happy about the way a render came out from any 3d renderer, I allways asume postwork will be needed, I came in into CG of the hand of photographic retouching, and maybe that is my main interest in postwork, if a photograph allways need a retouch, how couldn't a 3D CG render need it too?, not to mention corrections, ading stuff like clothing and hair is an art itself, that I allways promised myself to try since my wife gave me my little graphic tablet, my main goal is to make my renders looks photographics, not photorealistic, that's something diferent, I'm not much interested in that, I like the fotographic feel, for that I usually add some touches of defects like blur, hi contrast, noice, hi saturations or desaturations, to get rid of the, IMO, ugly perfections of the renderers. <br /> I'd never show an unfinished version of my works, but since I don't consider this one of my great ones I wanted to show you what I mean: <br /> Look at the upper unretouched Daz Studio renders, my only considerable work in this picture was the lights, and 3Delight seamed to ignored it <img src="https://www.posetteforever.com/images/smiles/eusa_snooty.gif" alt="" /> , I used some photograpic tricks to enhance it, added blur, dramatised the contrast to add depth and changed saturation and hue of some layers to add a hot and fire feel. At the end I worked most of the time in the postwork itself (trying and trying to get want I wanted), but I thougt the picture deserved it, just to rescue it from the total mediocrity. <br /> I think I like postwork <img src="https://www.posetteforever.com/images/smiles/eusa_shifty.gif" alt="" />

That is a great improvement, Rayera. What you did here is a perfect example of what I mean by as little postwork as possible to get the desired results. Too little postwork and the picture suffers and the artist's vision is not given form. Too much postwork, can spoil the picture too. Think about a lady wearing makeup, just the right amount of makeup can enhance her natural beauty, too much make can make into a clown. <br /> <br /> The picture that I posted last night is an example too when compared to those I create for our MBotW project. For the MBotW pictures, the goal is to show that "natural" beauty of the model, character, clothing, or textures--or a combination of them. So adding a little postwork to fix mistakes created by the rendering process or fixing lighting adding a simple background or adding shadows it right. FOr the picture that I posted last night, "Nine Marushkas", the goal was to create an image in that style. So the right amount of postwork was just what was needed to create that look. So that work was almost all postwork to the point where much of the fine detail work on the lady's morphs and textures were mostly lost.

Sometimes you need the added touches of postwork to finish giving it that quality that an image might need.

Yep.

I'm glad this postwork thread got some new attention! All these bits and pieces continue to build up my knowledge pool <img src="https://www.posetteforever.com/images/smiles/smile.gif" alt="" /> <br /> <br /> I can see the vast improvement in your picture, rayera and is a very good example of how to achieve a better final picture. I don't do much postwork yet, because I still haven't practised or tried the many features of Photoshop. <br /> <br /> I think the most I have tried so far was my March calendar submission, and that was mostly brush presets. The other special effects were part of a package I picked up to get me by until I could figure out how it was done.

With poser 6, i dont find the need to do much postwork, i have also started using the lighting with P6 - ambient occlusion - just has this different effect on the render in the end. <br /> and unlike P5 - it doesnt seem to suck system resources as much therefore rendering a bit faster.

With Poser 4, especially the lights in it, Ive done a lot of postwork - otherwise most pictures look dull. With Poser 6 and the rights lights one doesn't need so much postwork. <br /> <br /> But overall I think Postwork can add to a picture's mood / message / impact. <br /> <br /> Rayera's pic is a good example - postwork can make a not so good render better. Also, Postwork can improve a (very) good render to make it outstanding! <br /> <br /> And to add, I would like to see a topic with comparison pics Before - After Postwork. I guess I'll start one in a few....

You and your Poser 4 especially the lights in it I have done a lot of postwork - otherwise most pictures look dull.