I agree, but there was a time when I was one of the "prudes" and thought that nudity belonged in the bedroom,(rasied with a strong religious background as a kid and teen)  those days are past now, but I still don't like the idea of some of the stuff they show on TV here, esp when it's early enough that the kids are up and see it. And no I'm not talking about cable channels, the network channels have gotten pretty raunchy as well. I'm also not talking about artistic nudity, just the smut stuff they show and some of the commercials that tend to really go overboard. I do not believe that Poser is just for porn, of course it can be if people wish to use it that way, but the majority of what I see isn't. Even my kids use Poser and have seen pretty much all of my artwork, because my computer is in my living room and they are always walking by when I"m working on it. They know the difference between art and porn and even though my 13 year old likes to tell me "Mom puts some clothes on them" he knows it's art and not porn. As for the internet, I also agree, don't click if you don't want to see it, but there are times when even the internet can be a problem when I click on something in google that is totally innocent (I think) and then get bombarded with porn ad's, but I guess if you are going to use the internet you have to accept the bad with the good.

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I long to accomplish a great and noble task, but it is my chief duty to just try and keep control over this group of bozo's at the Nut house errr...Clubhouse! --Guilty Pleasures Chief of Bozo's

As another from the USofA, I say that I agree with both Tda42 and GP.  I also agree with Ahjah and Poserkatz about the illogical aspects of the situation.

Yes, GP you are right about what has become of broadcast television in the states these days.

Have you seen the movie, Medicine Man?  In it the Amazonian Indian native of the village where most of the movie take place are fully dressed, for their culture and environment, but underdressed for our culture.  When the movie is shown on television they show a different version where they are more dressed than would be natural for their culture and the nudity in that case is purely innocent.  Now the strange part is that there were a couple of times in the movie when the extra clothing did not cover enough for someone's taste, because I noticed a couple of times when the image was pixelated.

On the other hand, there are primetime comedy shows and cartoons that at times show much more than would be seen in medicine man; however, in this case when shown it is for shock or salacious effects.  Those scenes are often used in the broadcast advertisements for those programs.

A few years ago, a local television station was broadcasting reruns of the Flintstones.  They were pressured by a protest group to remove them from their schedule because "Childern watching the Flintstones will be harmed by the mistreatment of women and extreme violence."  When the Flintstones were removed from the schedule, it was replaced with the Simpsons.

have you seen the movie "Robocop"?  The language used in that movie is quite extreme, when broadcast on television they dub in different wording.  If they had prepared two versions of the film that would have been one thing, but each time I have seen a broadcast of it, it appears to hvae been redubbed.  There is one scene were a thug is robbing a store.  When he sees the hero of the movie, he opens fire while saying over and over, "@#$% me!".  In broadcasts, I have heard that phrase replaced differently each time with "Mess with me!", "Mess me!", "Play with me",  "Kiss me", and "Dirty me!".  Yet that scene has been used in the advertisement for the broadcasts, in the advertisement they use the original undubbed wording of "!@#$ me!"

The same word that was dubbed out in that scene is used regularly in a few comedy programs that are shown on that channel.  In the case of the comedies the word is not dubbed over.  There is also a teenager's dance contest show on that channel.  I have no interest in that program, but have seen the ending of it several times when preparing to watch the following program.  In that dance program, they use the most vulgar and base language you can imagine as though it is the normal way of talking.  On that show, they refer to the girls and women as (excuse my cleaning up their language to not being quite as vulgar) female canines and street walkers.  For men and boys they refer to them as customers of street walkers, managers of street walkers and canines.  They use these terms as we would use young ladies, ladies, men and young men.

In the second season of "Enterprise" there was a scene where Hoshi has to climb through a very narrow opening in the ceiling and then drop through another opening into anotehr room.  Somehow, when dropping through the ceiling she looses her clothing.  I suppose to got snagged and ripped off during her fall.  Either way she is shown frontal topless, with her arms covering herself.  The loss of her clothing was a minor detail in that episode that did nothing to advance the story.  It seems that it was added for a humorious moments.  Then there have been scenes where the crew members were going through docontamination and in the process they were shown in their underwear applying some decontamination ointments on themselves and each other.  There is another scene in another episode that showed the bare back of Blalock's character.  In each of these cases, those scenes were used in the advertisements edited so as to make it appear that something salacious was going on.  In the case of Hoshi's topless scene it was shown in the generic advertisement for the series for over a year.  However, the advertisment was edited so that it appeard that her lack of clothing was the result of a salacious assult by a fellow cremember.

Pangor

I'm only know cinema-movies from us - not the television.
Therefore it is highly interesting to me to read something about it here,
thanks pangor, gp,tda - seems to me, that the "prudes" have a lot of
weight   .
I agree also with gp and others, who say, that there is a difference
between nudity - artistic nudity - rough nudity and "soft porn nudity".
To me the difference is in fact the motivation to make a nude pic.

In Germany we have a § called Pornography - and the law and order
is totally different to similar pics, movies and texts. There is no rule,
most often the deceisions of judges are to 1 special thing, every thing is
a special kind with it's own judging. Sometimes it called porn, sometimes not.

It's difficult, but to me it's not logical to say: Teenager don't must look porn,
if they are underaged, but they can f**k, like they want.  

Many of us-movies (in us for 15 or under 15) get in germany the 18+ Label
because of violence - on the other hand in germany the comedies always
show naked tits, even in TV i think - it's a strange strange world...

Don't forget the V-Chip guys. They put that in there to give them permission to have adult themes on the air. It is becomeing a time when popcorn, coke and a good movie are things of the past. Again they let you choose what to watch with the ratings on the box. The times have gone where oh sh_t had replaced Gee Whizz. Sometimes taking away some of the freedoms are a good thing and power to the people instead of networks telling you what to watch. We the people decide on what is right or wrong and really the sad down fall is most of the people go for the craze and smut. Spock said it best. The needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few or the one. That's just what they did.

An example of something I thought was totally unnessasary, the movie "Open Water" a great movie if you haven't seen it yet, but at the very beginning of the movie the two stars of the movie (husband and wife) go to bed for the night and make love and it shows them nude, the movie is about a couple who gets left out in the ocean by accident when they go on a scuba diving trip on a charterd boat with about 20 other people. The only nudity is in that first scene, which I believe was thown in to up the rating of the movie or to try and get more men to watch it. I saw no reason for that scene, but then maybe I am still a prude lol
What's really getting me mad is all the commercials on tv about pills, almost every commercial these days is someone pushing some kind of drug (not illigal type drugs, but drugs for different ailments) It is any wonder these days that so many people are hooked on pain killers, depressants and diet pills? They (the commercials) make you think that you are not healthy or happy unless you have something wrong with you and need to take pills of some kind for it. The really "great" one is the "boner pill" commercials that they show at all times of the day and evening suggesting men should get them so they can make their lives better and their wives happier. My 13 year old son sees these commercials and just cracks up, of course it's embarrasing to me to be watching tv with him and have one of them come on and have him ask me what  about these kinds of pills. Of course he knows what they are now, but the first time it came on, he didn't and I wanted to crawl under the couch lol
Of course we've also got all the Victoria's secert commercials on and I'll tell you what, Victoria doesn't have much of a secret that I can see
Well that's my two cents worth

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I long to accomplish a great and noble task, but it is my chief duty to just try and keep control over this group of bozo's at the Nut house errr...Clubhouse! --Guilty Pleasures Chief of Bozo's

I had not considered the V-Chip, my television was made before the introduction of it.  Something that I have been curious about, does it block undesired commercials and public service announcements broadcast during an acceptable television program?

The other night I was watching a travel and highlight style program about Italy.  During the program they avoided showing any of the public artworks.  When they could not avoid having one of the paintings or statues in the frame, they were covered by a caption boxes, providing additional details of the piece.  Such as when they showed the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel.  With the Scene of the creation of Adam, they showed the almost the complete image, but they place a caption box providing details of its creations covering all of Adam except for his head, sholders and his arm extended twords God.  Oh yes, they also avoided mentioning the word "God", it was replaced with "the bearded figure in the right".
During the intermissions they showed advertisements for male performance enhancement drugs, one even had diagram showing the results on the user.  They played a public service announcement that was quite explicit.

The dance program that I mentioned, it is rated Y-7, while Star Trek is rated TV-PG and recent broadcast of H.G.Well's "The Time Machine" the version with Rod Taylor as the time travler was rated TV-R.

Pangor

Only in America
I guess American TV thinks it's okay to show porn, sex and drugsand violence  and not okay to show anything religious, what a screwed up way of thinking.
Just think, you can still watch Howard Stern on tv, doesn't that say a lot in itself??
 

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I long to accomplish a great and noble task, but it is my chief duty to just try and keep control over this group of bozo's at the Nut house errr...Clubhouse! --Guilty Pleasures Chief of Bozo's

I loved The Time Machine. In some small way they had a romantic feal to them. Even Voyage To The Bottom Of The Sea the take off pilot or Movie if you will, seem to have a romantic Theme song for the start up. The way I see it, in my mind it is fine for people to experiment and get to know each other as woman and man but they take all the fun and fantisy away leaveing nothing. VH1 and M TV when they first started out they had crazy and fun videos. But these days it is everything including the mule thrown in the video and nothing is special anymore. Everything is the same because of the Midi patches and no more style. The girls are looking more and more slutty and its like a Christmas Present. We are excited to open up the present and the thrill of what it was is gone. Now I know guys like that kind of stuff but hey if you keep showing us the color blue we will get tired of it and want something else for a change.   It's like we have done that and been there. Even I get tired of those pills which I don't need for the record and a woman saying it's the quailty responce he wants like if she isn't looking like a rabbit ready to jump his bones every 5 seconds. Pleeeez   The only thing that gal needs is some candle light and a good album of Barry White.   Yes we takin the fun out of it and gave it to our young (10 years old on up), to worry us one more time. Just my two cents. Anybody have anymore change to spare.

Amen brother, I agree, what's left to the imagination anymore? Another thing, look at the kids of today, they are so much less innocent than I was at their ages, I think they are growing up way to fast and see way to much on tv, hear way to much on the radio and on their games and music, it's really kind of scary to think about. I'm all for learning, but when we start taking away a childs 'childhood" is that really a good thing? Again I'm not talking about letting children explore art, let's just keep the porn and smut out of their hands until they are old enough to understand it better.

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I long to accomplish a great and noble task, but it is my chief duty to just try and keep control over this group of bozo's at the Nut house errr...Clubhouse! --Guilty Pleasures Chief of Bozo's

Due to my PC-Problems I watch this thread only now.

@ Pangor about his salesmen experience: my reaction in the same situation would be to ask to the salesman something like : "Uhm... ok... But, do you have some of those big latex penis ? mmmmh... those with batteries inside that .... (censored)", then when out of the store I would press my naked butts on their glasses and run away before the police come... (But Tormie is very, very bad     ).

We live in a strange world, here in Italy we seems obsessed by nude and sex. On my sat tv I watch foreign TV and I don't see so many naked, half naked women like here in our TVs. You can see all sorts of strange dresses women presenting the news here and on foreign TV they have formal dresses.

What I really don't like is that in the same program the male announcer is every time dresses with formal dresses but the women are half naked. I thought at it recently and I find it disgusting.

I find that the informations that they give us on TV, radio and newspapers is not the truth, but they are distorced, I call it "enriched reality", When I and my brother are watching a particular italian news channel we laugh to tears...

The "enriched" reality for a car crash is a sad music into the background, some scenes showing crying relatives and if a child is involved, a close view of a little shoe or a doll on asphalt: disgusting... But here there are more subtle things, most of them about politics. For example: you know what happened some days ago in Iraq when american soldiers killed an italian secret service agent for an accident. Now, the poor man was killed and I think that all happened in seconds, he could do absolutely nothing but being killed, he was only on the wrong side of the car. Now he has become a hero, gold medalled (for what I don't know...), the funeral has been shown on TV with all the italian "realm" present. That man was doing his work and he has been killed, honour to him, but they "enriched" what happend saying that he volunteerly protected the freed hostage with his body, a hero, medal, public funeral, a lot of "crcodile's tears" etc.... Poor man, his corpse has been used for propaganda...

 I think that all this parody has been created only to give consence to our involvement in Iraq (our "courageous soldiers"...lol) strongly wanted by our actual prime minister while the "regional" elections are incoming...


I don't watch tv too much and have all sorts of ad-spam-blocking programs on my PC, I can't live without it...

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You are right with Eversharp!

It seems that they have forgotten even how to make a real romantic movies.  Some of the movies of this sort that I find most touching and memorable would never last in the movie house these days.  In some cases the couple never even became a couple, consider "Roman Holiday".  In it the main two characters clearly fell in love, but because of their responsibilities and duties they had to part.  Some others are "Mr Robinson Cruso" staring Douglas Fairbanks Sr. and the charming little Disney comedy "Darby O'Gill and the Little People".  I would hate to think of how these stories would be fouled up if they were remade today to suit modern expectations.

Look at how they changed "Starship Troopers" when they adapeted it from the original book into a movie.  As an action/SciFi movie, I like it.  But I think that it would have been so much better if they had kept to the original story.  Other than the obvious changes such as the mixed gender combat units, there is one change that has me puzzled.  In the movie, Ricco's parent's who were dead set against his joining the service are killed in the sneak attack that destroyed his home city.  In the book it is different.  Ricco's parents were again dead set against his enlistment, mostly so far it is the same as the movie although in the book it is also made clear that his father is an absolute pacifist.  When Ricco's home city is destroyed in the attack, his mother is killed, but his father who was on a business trip survives.  at the end of the book, Ricco has already been field promoted to the head of the Roughnecks and afterwords has already attended OTC and been once again promoted.  At that point after suffering heavy losses, his command is reinforced by a number of green privates fresh out of boot camp.  His father is no longer a pacifist and is one of those new privates now under his command.  (I may have gotten some details wrong, It has been a couple of decades since I last read it.  Note to self, reread it)

Pangor

"Another thing, look at the kids of today, they are so much less innocent than I was at their ages, I think they are growing up way to fast and see way to much on tv, hear way to much on the radio and on their games and music, it's really kind of scary to think about. I'm all for learning, but when we start taking away a childs 'childhood" is that really a good thing? Again I'm not talking about letting children explore art, let's just keep the porn and smut out of their hands until they are old enough to understand it better."

I agree. Kids don't think or feel the same way as adults do and i think it's so wrong to expose them to porn, smut and sex the way tv/papers etc do. Here in sweden awhile back a big clothing store tried to sell bras (including stuffed ones) to 7-8 year olds. When you're that little there's not even a need for one and that's so not what girls that age think about. What were they thinking?? They pulled the clothes btw too many people protested it and boycotted the store for it to be profitable.

WoW! This topic became very complicated (thank God I have a dictionary I coundn't translate all this    ). There is censorship in the USA?   That's a good exemple of "enriched reality". Once again it proves that my "favourite" idio...I mean teacher told us a lot of  foolishness.   By the way is it true that in the countries members of the European Union (exspecially Germany) all people are rich and happy and there are free clothes and food on the streets , because people there are so rich that they don't need to keep the clothes they bought a month ago?    
I agree with GP our generation is growing too fast and the medias helped us alot. But I believe here there is bigger contrast between the previous and the next generation due to a lot of specifical reasons. There was a sexual revolution in the 60's , hippys , the Beattles and other stuff witch were almost forbidden here.   Now we're making up for all this . There was censorship. Communism and nudity?   No way! But now there is nudity not only on the TV , there is violence also not only on the TV . A  year ago two girls younger than me killed their classmate only because she was prettier, a several moths ago there were some boys who did te same and after that cut up their friend's body parts into pieces to hide the body. After that older people said :" There was no such things when we were teenagers! It's all because of the TV (aka because of the american movies don't take it personally ) , because of the video games and of course because of MTv !" There was no censorship of course but parents go crazy when they see some non-normal thing on the screen. When my father was a boy ( That's not very good exemple he's 20 years older than most of you) there was no TV , no cinema in his village and his family was considered very rich because they had a radio. I know it may sounds ridiculous but it's true. There were no dirty pictures in any newspaper nor everywhere else and the old people had strict understandings , traditions and they educated their children the same way. And now when my father accidentaly saw an Marylin Manson's clip on MTv his reaction was.. WoW.. just terrible. I was just pretending not to pay attention to the TV screen waiting to see how he would turn off the TV but he continue to watch with disguise and not believing his eyes. Then I said : " Is there something wrong with the remote control? It 's not working, does it?" After that my parents were sure I'm not watching such a things and I even don't know that MTv exists.     I couldn't say I have watched this video many times before without paying such attention to it because it was mediocre and boring. But to say that I'm sometimes watching MTv and listening to bands such as Sirenia , Nightwish and ect that would be a disaster! When there are some nudity scenes in a movie my parents automaticaly change the chanel because I could see it but I souldn't . When my father was principal ( oh yes , he's a teacher    ) and heard some uncensored words from some of the students he always talked with the student's parents. But all this didn't make me better than the other teenagers they even think I'm not normal and I'm a very very bad person ( Oh yes I'm an "energy vampire" and a "witch" , remember?        ) So it's not only because of the medias. There was also a poster in Sofia ( the capital) of Azis ( he/she or whatever this Poser is made career as chalga singer by showing his fat body wearing women clothes and pretending to be homosexsual . Well he's not! ) showing his naked ass (sorry if this is a bad word    ) and Boiko Borisov came personally to remove the poster! Oh you don't know who is Boiko Borisov . His the MVR (police) chief the most honoured and trusted man here. I don't think this was part of his job.
@Tormentor , our news readers may be dressed formally but the news are... like a fairy-tale for children.   There was a political crise here a weeks ago but on the news they said that the rating of the current government is raising and most of the people would vote for the king in the next elections ( I will be 18 years old in the next elections and I will have the right to vote. WoW! ). The people were ready to go out and protest like they did in 1997 but the news said they're content. There was also such funerals of our soldiers who died in Kerbala a year ago but the reaction of the society was diffrent from the expected. They want the government to remove our troops from Iraq immediately. And another exemple of "enriched reality" the same news channel said that only 2% of the people don't like the change in the Constitution but another sociological investigation said that they were 80% . Big diffrence , isn't it?     

From reading all that's been posted here by everyone, I think now that the United States is about the same as any other Country, they all seem to have problems, I guess we all just have to deal with it and know that we're not alone on this big planet.

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I long to accomplish a great and noble task, but it is my chief duty to just try and keep control over this group of bozo's at the Nut house errr...Clubhouse! --Guilty Pleasures Chief of Bozo's

GP, quite so, it looks like there are twisted ideas all over the world.

Tormentor, I would not have protested in the store the way the you suggeseted.  More so, because, in the first store, they have a security guard stationed by the front door.  She has been working at that store longer than any of their salesstaff, so while that last of sales people that I have become familiar with are long gone, she knows me.

Our television news is not much better.  In this area, the women newsreader are dressesd similar in style to their male counterparts; what bothers me though is ther attitudes and bahavior.  Most often the men, who are sitting at the news desk, read the news in a stern or even stoic stlye.  Sometimes the women at the news desk also use that style, but more often than not, they put on a cutsie act.  Then after a news story is finished, they will make comments on the story, either "AWW tooo bad", "how cute!"  "Oh how sad".  They often make jokes too, often the jokes are at the expense of the men.  Then the men may sometimes join in with the "fun", but they have to watch their step.
The field reporters, weather people, and sports reporters are even more frivioulus in their style.  Then we had horrible thing reported in the news that they descibe with these words like  "Spectacular" and "Fantastic".  Since when is a fire that destroys an entire city block of homes, fantastic?

A few years ago, there was a natural disaster, a firestorm.  During it the homes of some of the news people were threatened.  In the news studio there was a drama developing as the two of the newsreaders were effected by the fire.  In the end they both left the studio to do what they could back home, the problem is how they were both treated differently of taking a similar course of action.  One was a man and the other was a woman, they were both publicly ordered to stay in the studio.

For the man's family the danger was extreme, he had called home and discovered that the babysitter had left to save herself, leaving his childeren and pets behind to face the on comming fire.  He tried to contact his neighbors but they appeared to have already evacuated.  So, he left to go home and rescue his childern and pets.    Latter he called in his report from a payphone at a refugee shelter: When he had arrived home he found his neighborhood engulfed in smoke and the block next to his was alread on fire.  He got to his house, got his childern and pets into his vehicle.  By the time they were pulling away from the his house, the fire had reached it and it was fully engulfed by the time they had reached the end of the block.  After that day, his job was termininated and he has never been seen from nor mentioned again.

Now for the woman, she left the studio at the same time.  The station sent a remote feed truck and crew to her house.  They filmed her standing on her roof with a garden hose.  She was referred to as brave and her actions heroic.  They also showed her and the crew removing her possesion from her home so as to not loose them.  As it turned out, the fire never any closer to her home than about four miles.  (Too close for comfort, but compared to the fellow's home...)  The scene of her "combating" the fire was used in the advertisement of the news department for years.  By the way, they composited flames into the scene and tinted her red and orange for the advertisement.  She also was given several awards and medals for her bravery.

Yes, though there are some under clothed newsreaders in this country as well.  I have heard about a cable news program called, "The Naked News".  In it the newsreaders and reporters deliver the news while stripping off their clothes.  Since, I have not seen that program, I don't know how they present it nor if they do in fact end up completly naked or if they have a bathing suit on under their clothes and stop there.  Every so often on the regular news shows, they will mention somthing about that program and show the same clip each time.  The clip is of the "weather babe" (as the woman newsreader on the regular news show referred to her as) delivering a forecast while unbuttoning and removing her blouse, the clip stops as soon as one bare sholder is visible.


Erenda, you have cable television?  Here I thought you were living in the 19th century!!  
    No, just kidding, I know better.  It is the regular news that paints a strange picture for your part of Europe.  They present us with a picture of peasent villiages, a few rare 19th Century cities with some early 20th Century improvements with the country side being overrun with gypsies and cossack raiders.

TdaC, I agree, today's childeren cause me to worry about the future.  When I was in school and for many years there after, I always carried a pocket knife with me.  It has two different size cutting blades, bottle opener/screwdriver and a can opener.  It also has a compass that has never worked since I first got the knife.  I never thought of it as a weapon, and I even used it in school many times and the tool that it is.  Now, I no longer carry it, in case someone accuses me of carrying a weapon.  Many building now have signs on them warning procecution of anyone entering them with weapon.  Last year, a grade school student was expelled from a local school and arrested for violating their zero tolerance for weapons policy.  The student had a nail file in her bag, not even a metal one, it was an emery board.

Pangor