What do you think about?
Further steps into concentration/monopol?
Subject: DAZ has bought Poserpros
Last edited by Poserkatz on 17 Feb 2005 09:36; edited 2 times in total
Last edited by Poserkatz on 17 Feb 2005 09:36; edited 2 times in total
Subject:
Well I think it bites! :crybaby: Although I don't frequent (not even sure I am a member there) I feel that it's just not right. I read the forums at DAZ and in it they stated the obvious. We are not going to change Poser Pros operation, the only thing is a slight modification to the TOS (Term Of Service). In other words they are going to do to PP's what they did to their own site last year. Clean it up! (If that's what you want to call it) Basically I call it Censorship! :cussing: :sex: Poser pros was one of the sites that pretty much ran okay as is, so why are they trying to fix something that's not broken? Also, if you really need to know what people think, just ask one of the merchants there that "jumped ship" when the news was out. DAZ, Renderosity, now Poser Pros all "cleaning up" their act? Soon there might not be much left for us to visit. On a personal note, I am to a point right now where this will be the only Poser Forum I visit any more. I want to get back to my actual painting anyways and maybe the powers are telling me it's my time to move on.......I will always be here for Posy. I am also thinking of re-doing my site, to be an artist page with no more Poser content......This is my rant about the matter and only a rant at the moment...... :xcensoredx: :xcensoredx: :xcensoredx: :xcensoredx: :xcensoredx:
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What was your impression? What happened to you? How far up? I follow your logic. I hope we can make the deadline. You don't say.
Subject:
I don't like it. I don't like it at all.
Art grows on diversity of styles, not on monopolies. Looking through history, whenever a monopoly controled artistic expression, the art stagnated rather than grow. Given enough takeovers that there can become a virtual monopoly of this sort of art. In which case site like this one will be the mavericks that will keep the traditions alive. But without the massive pool of new talent that a diverse style of websites fosters, what will happen to teh field in general.
It seems to me that DAZ has too much money and does not know what to do with it. Rather than developing new thinks to expand posibilities for all of us, they are spending their money on already working things and then fix them.
I learned of the takeover when I went to PP and found some pictures missing from the gallery. It was a cookie problem. While they did not overly change the appearance of the site, that did change the DNS system for it, and the cookies. Since I have all cookies turned off, except for the site that I permit the use of cookies for, the new cookie domain did not work until I added it to the permitted sites. Once done, the missing pictures again appeared.
We will have to see what changes they make to the TOS. If they are bad enough, then we may each have to make the determination whether we will want to post any more work there or perhaps even pull out what we have alread posted there.
Pangor
Art grows on diversity of styles, not on monopolies. Looking through history, whenever a monopoly controled artistic expression, the art stagnated rather than grow. Given enough takeovers that there can become a virtual monopoly of this sort of art. In which case site like this one will be the mavericks that will keep the traditions alive. But without the massive pool of new talent that a diverse style of websites fosters, what will happen to teh field in general.
It seems to me that DAZ has too much money and does not know what to do with it. Rather than developing new thinks to expand posibilities for all of us, they are spending their money on already working things and then fix them.
I learned of the takeover when I went to PP and found some pictures missing from the gallery. It was a cookie problem. While they did not overly change the appearance of the site, that did change the DNS system for it, and the cookies. Since I have all cookies turned off, except for the site that I permit the use of cookies for, the new cookie domain did not work until I added it to the permitted sites. Once done, the missing pictures again appeared.
We will have to see what changes they make to the TOS. If they are bad enough, then we may each have to make the determination whether we will want to post any more work there or perhaps even pull out what we have alread posted there.
Pangor
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Hawktoey, I hope that you don't do anything so drastic as leave the field over this issue.
Pangor
Pangor
Subject:
I didn't know it :-s ...
Anyway, I'm not too much surprised about it because I think that PP like all commercial-art site was made to earn money, so simply they gave them the right amount of cash and they sold the place.
Now, I don't find that it's [i:6b3eca323e]exactly[/i:6b3eca323e] a wrong thing, because if you see it in a commercial perspective it was a good operation. When a site sell things, not only to survive or make some extras to the owner's wages but in order to be the main source of money for the owner, it become a thing to sell itself.
If someone say me "Hey dude, I'll give you a million dollars for you bus driver job" I'll accept instantly, so all of you would do the same. You may guess what I would reply if someone would offer me some cash for this site.... Well, I'd think about it deeper then what I would think for my job, but at least, I can recreate the same site with a different name without problems because we don't sell anything and the copyrights are on things without a commercial value even if they worth a lot :heartbeat: for us. (So nobody will offer me a cent for the site... lol...)
We talked about commerce and art a lot of times and you know what's my opinion (you're watching it on the screen :bigrinnin: ).
Could a site like this be an alternative to big commercial sites? I think no, or, better, not exactly.
You see what's happen on commercial sites: big money means professional people at work, few software problems, unlimited bandwidth and disk space.
With my money the site has a noob webmaster ( :oops: :oops: :oops: ), support made on a volunteer basis ( Posy :heartbeat: ) and moderators who do the job for free. None of us is paid so we the job is made in our free time and sometimes the things dont' work :oops: .
We can't be [i:6b3eca323e]against[/i:6b3eca323e] big sites because it could be very easy to destroy Posetteforever in different ways: The most used way is to infiltrate someone or a group of people who will begin to criticize all and stress the members so much to convince them to go away, and this is the moderators/admins/webmaster job to stop those people. The other way is unstoppable: it will be easy to consume all the limited site's bandwidth with a lot of connections or downloads. if this will happen I'll limit the access to very well known users and accept new members only after an invitation from a known member.
In any case I suggested you a lot of times that if you don't agree with the politic of commercial sites, just use them to post your artwork. I post my pictures on all the sites I know and don't buy anything.
With my Norton Security package I don't even see a banner or a pop-up even if the damn (commercial) Norton-thing costs me 30$ a year, damnit :crybaby: !
The cost for not being a commercial things basically is that we'll be always a small group of people, but it doesn't matter as long as we'll have fun doing our artworks :bigrinnin: ! If you've fun doing what you do where is the problem :bigrinnin: ?
I understand that my way of thinking is very far from the common sense because I make my pictures and also my job as a webmaster of this place only for fun and not to earn money or reach fame and success. If it'll come it's ok, if not what's the problem? I'm (nearly) happy with my life, I've my house, my family, my cats, Posetteforever and my friends :heartbeat: there and I don't need anything else.
Anyway, I'm not too much surprised about it because I think that PP like all commercial-art site was made to earn money, so simply they gave them the right amount of cash and they sold the place.
Now, I don't find that it's [i:6b3eca323e]exactly[/i:6b3eca323e] a wrong thing, because if you see it in a commercial perspective it was a good operation. When a site sell things, not only to survive or make some extras to the owner's wages but in order to be the main source of money for the owner, it become a thing to sell itself.
If someone say me "Hey dude, I'll give you a million dollars for you bus driver job" I'll accept instantly, so all of you would do the same. You may guess what I would reply if someone would offer me some cash for this site.... Well, I'd think about it deeper then what I would think for my job, but at least, I can recreate the same site with a different name without problems because we don't sell anything and the copyrights are on things without a commercial value even if they worth a lot :heartbeat: for us. (So nobody will offer me a cent for the site... lol...)
We talked about commerce and art a lot of times and you know what's my opinion (you're watching it on the screen :bigrinnin: ).
Could a site like this be an alternative to big commercial sites? I think no, or, better, not exactly.
You see what's happen on commercial sites: big money means professional people at work, few software problems, unlimited bandwidth and disk space.
With my money the site has a noob webmaster ( :oops: :oops: :oops: ), support made on a volunteer basis ( Posy :heartbeat: ) and moderators who do the job for free. None of us is paid so we the job is made in our free time and sometimes the things dont' work :oops: .
We can't be [i:6b3eca323e]against[/i:6b3eca323e] big sites because it could be very easy to destroy Posetteforever in different ways: The most used way is to infiltrate someone or a group of people who will begin to criticize all and stress the members so much to convince them to go away, and this is the moderators/admins/webmaster job to stop those people. The other way is unstoppable: it will be easy to consume all the limited site's bandwidth with a lot of connections or downloads. if this will happen I'll limit the access to very well known users and accept new members only after an invitation from a known member.
In any case I suggested you a lot of times that if you don't agree with the politic of commercial sites, just use them to post your artwork. I post my pictures on all the sites I know and don't buy anything.
With my Norton Security package I don't even see a banner or a pop-up even if the damn (commercial) Norton-thing costs me 30$ a year, damnit :crybaby: !
The cost for not being a commercial things basically is that we'll be always a small group of people, but it doesn't matter as long as we'll have fun doing our artworks :bigrinnin: ! If you've fun doing what you do where is the problem :bigrinnin: ?
I understand that my way of thinking is very far from the common sense because I make my pictures and also my job as a webmaster of this place only for fun and not to earn money or reach fame and success. If it'll come it's ok, if not what's the problem? I'm (nearly) happy with my life, I've my house, my family, my cats, Posetteforever and my friends :heartbeat: there and I don't need anything else.
Subject:
So I taught you something new. I am surprised to hear that you are not much surprised about it because he or she think that PP like all commercial-art site was made to earn money so simply they gave them the right amount of cash and they sold the place. Does anyone ever really say him or her Hey dude he or she will give you a million dollars for you bus driver job he or she will accept instantly so all of you would do the same? I can't guess. Tell me. How about that. Oh yeah, we were talking about it deeper then what he or she would think for his or her job but at least he or she can recreate the same site with a different name without problems because we do not sell anything and the copyrights are on things without a commercial value even if they worth a lot heartbeat for us . Woe! That is a rather sweeping generalization about people. Of course I remember you well online nearly ever so I placed my little free stuffs on my public folder so that everyone who make a search for Posette on the peer 2 peer network can find my files and download them directly. We were talking about not much surprised about it because he or she think that PP like all commercial-art site was made to earn money so simply they gave them the right amount of cash and they sold the place. It's possible. Precisely. Why? Are you serious? I try to improve a little every day. Your money the site has a noob webmaster oops oops oops support made on a volunteer basis you heartbeat and moderators who do the job for free sounds like a plan. Some of them could be though. How? We can't all be perfect. But I don't have it. I'm happyyou're glad online nearly ever so I placed my little free stuffs on my public folder so that everyone who make a search for Posette on the peer 2 peer network can find my files and download them directly. May God bless you. Who needs anything else?
Subject:
They have just e-mailed me that Poser 6 is coming out with a big package of goodies and software. It probubly freaked Daz out and now they want to have a monoply so it will knock Poser out of the ring. I hate to say it but it seems Daz is going all out to corner the market for their own. With there software with Daz Studios system and plug in to put object files complete with animation into bryce which they have bought from Corel. 5.5 on they way and Daz Studio 1.0. Like Poser with Mover 5 and Vue. Things are moving way to fast. #-o
Subject:
Nicely said, Tormentor.
On thing though, once a site is sold part of the sales contract often is a non-competition clause that prevent the previous owners from doing anything for money or for free that could be seen by the purchasers as competition for a period of time. In the case of hardware makers, that is why the first owner of Atari went into the resurant business after selling the company. And Jobs was required to to promote NeXt as an educational system, it was a loop hole in his agreement.
Pangor
On thing though, once a site is sold part of the sales contract often is a non-competition clause that prevent the previous owners from doing anything for money or for free that could be seen by the purchasers as competition for a period of time. In the case of hardware makers, that is why the first owner of Atari went into the resurant business after selling the company. And Jobs was required to to promote NeXt as an educational system, it was a loop hole in his agreement.
Pangor
Subject:
Haven't been into the forums at Poserpros in a bit but from what I have heard about the recent bannings of the owner I have a feeling that this is more than likely why they sold the site to Daz. Of course since I'm not on the up and up about all the details and this is the first I've heard of PoserPros being sold to Daz I could be wrong. But it makes me wonder if the owners of a site have been banned from their own site would they really want to continue running it from behind the scenes. As for my feelings on Daz having it now, well I don't know yet, will have to wait and see how things go. Like I said I haven't spent much time in PoserPros in the last 8 months or so, so right now it I"m kind of netural on the whole thing.
Subject:
What! :-s
Just like that huh, your just going to stay in the corner without a fight. :dancing:
Well GP I think if we found puddin face he would know what to do. Or even the unthinkable!.........
:pray: ............. 8-[ ....................Go to DV place of work and get................... :-$ I just can't bring myself to say it.............. 8-[ ...................go get BUBBA! :x
Yah that's right I said the B word. [-X Why I can here him knocking down a few servers just because
someone said his name. 8-[
Don't mess with BUBBA :x Everyone around here that's been here awhile know's that. :crybaby: :crybaby: :crybaby:
Just like that huh, your just going to stay in the corner without a fight. :dancing:
Well GP I think if we found puddin face he would know what to do. Or even the unthinkable!.........
:pray: ............. 8-[ ....................Go to DV place of work and get................... :-$ I just can't bring myself to say it.............. 8-[ ...................go get BUBBA! :x
Yah that's right I said the B word. [-X Why I can here him knocking down a few servers just because
someone said his name. 8-[
Don't mess with BUBBA :x Everyone around here that's been here awhile know's that. :crybaby: :crybaby: :crybaby:
Subject:
#-o Oh nooooo Not BUBBA!!!!!!!!!!!!! 8-[
GP runs and hides in her office at the clubhouse and locks the door and baracades it with boxes of tuna pop tarts. :pray:
That's funny about Bubba, because when my ex and I ran a bbs from our home we had two mascots called "Tiny and Bubba" they were our "Hit men" for anyone who was not behaving on the bbs lol
Actually though I'm not staying in a corner, I'm just waiting to see how things go before I decide if this is a good thing or not, and another reason is I don't have enough time to post things on all the sites I used to due to my time restrictions and other things I've mentioned here before and Poserpros has been in the back corner for sometime. My main amount of time spent is here and planit3d and I find myself lacking in being able to post on these sites as much as I would like to, esp when I'm a mod at both.
Of course another reason is I just don't do politics and I like the "non-politic" places such as Posetteforever and Planit3d much better than some of the other well known sites. I have enough stress in my life than to get wrapped up in those things :)
GP runs and hides in her office at the clubhouse and locks the door and baracades it with boxes of tuna pop tarts. :pray:
That's funny about Bubba, because when my ex and I ran a bbs from our home we had two mascots called "Tiny and Bubba" they were our "Hit men" for anyone who was not behaving on the bbs lol
Actually though I'm not staying in a corner, I'm just waiting to see how things go before I decide if this is a good thing or not, and another reason is I don't have enough time to post things on all the sites I used to due to my time restrictions and other things I've mentioned here before and Poserpros has been in the back corner for sometime. My main amount of time spent is here and planit3d and I find myself lacking in being able to post on these sites as much as I would like to, esp when I'm a mod at both.
Of course another reason is I just don't do politics and I like the "non-politic" places such as Posetteforever and Planit3d much better than some of the other well known sites. I have enough stress in my life than to get wrapped up in those things :)
Subject:
Then it's settled then. 8-[ ..........................We go get BUBBA! :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
So I guess this makes us the Mod Squad. :bigrinnin:
So I guess this makes us the Mod Squad. :bigrinnin:
Subject:
:bigrinnin: :bigrinnin: :bigrinnin: :lmao: !!!
Wh... What ??? Who ?? :-s :-s :-s
Quote:
But it makes me wonder if the owners of a site have been banned from their own site would they really want to continue running it from behind the scenes
Wh... What ??? Who ?? :-s :-s :-s
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