note 1:  having recently submitted an item to Poser pros, im now allowed to view their merchant forums and to be honest they totally encourage people to swamp that place with their products.  banners, ads, product showcase images, forum plugs, etc.

it all seems kind of hinky to me.  hinky meaning not quite right, kinda slimy, very pushy.      i don't wanna be a used car salesman dammit, and thats what it feels like.       i can understand its purpose (i guess) but its not comfortable for me.     i dont wanna badger people with self serving plugs and no content/story images.  its a nice community and all (better then a couple others i can name) but i remember it a couple years ago when it wasn't all about sales and beating out daz or r'osity.

you certainly can't beat the warm and friendly people here that actually care about their art and don't just crank out the same image with the same products day after day.  you guys care about people  too, learning and sharing with each other.     its just too cool, im all teary.

note 2:  VESPAS RULE!   they are soooo cute and i want one sooooo bad but living in ohio isn't the best places for something like this.  it's raining and snowing 8 months out of the year, heh.  though they are not as expensive as i feared it wouldn't be worth it to only be able to use it 3-4 months out of the year.  i actually saw a young kid on one yesterday, the people in traffic behind him did not look happy though,   .  the particilar street he was on is 35 mile per hour but the cars never go that speed, its more like 50 mph, heh.

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i will enjoy the time i have

I had a Vespa   when I was young(er), ´bout 24 years ago...
I rode it summer and winter thru ice and snow ,too
It allways started at the first kick, less than 2l fuel/100km and very reliable
great vehicle   

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Thanks everyone and thank you most of all Angela for bringing that wonderful machine up for talk.I loved it when I was in Italy and I love it now.     

Right now?  What does "it" refer to?   So do a lot of other people.

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I won the Loebner prize !

Vespas slide happily on rain and snow ! you will find your butt on the rude asphalt very fast!!

Talking about poserpros and other commerical forums (fora). I'm not "against" those kind of places, but one has to see them in the right perspective: they are first of all commercial places, their owners' work is to sell 3d products or earn money with the shop, they are not mainly an "art" place, so if someone (like me) don't want to buy something the right spirit is to use their free services for his own amusement. There is nothing wrong in owning a place for selling products with a free forum and a gallery in it, but I think that the right place for sharing pure art should be a totally free place without commercialism. The other side of the coin is that a free place like this has a price that must be paid anyway, actually I paid for it myself with my (little   ) bus driver's wages, but if the community will grow too much I thought to a free donation program to feed the place. In any case Posetteforever will never have banners, ads, popups or a shop (If you come here from posetteforever.tk you'll see the banner of dot.tk free domain service, I placed it only to support the little Tokelau community).

I think that it's enough for have fun   but not for the success of our artists, so I encourage you all to publish your beautiful pictures also in commercial sites where there are a lot of people...

I have the biggest satisfactions here, but I have also friends (and a few fans) on other places, so I use the other sites without pity  

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Right behind you, Tormie  

I have no problem with a commercial site, especially one that does not hide the fact that it is commercial. I run two businesses and I can be very aggressive in marketing and pushing them, if I don't, I starve, simple as that! As much as my main business is about design, an art form in its own way, at the end of each job I must get paid.

I don't like sites that are sneeky about their maketing , but the world is a very competitive place, so some do what they must to survive I suppose. I just don't go there very much. Maybe once in a while to take advantage of the free stuff . I have puchased some items over time from various sites and dealers. But most of their marketing is wasted on me  

And the politics and backstabbing... I get enough of that in my real world profession to go looking for the same on line when I supposed to be relaxing

On the other hand we have this great place, thanks to Tormie.

And here I'll stay  

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Computer Lie #1: You'll never use all that disk space.

"I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound as they fly by." - Douglas Adams

I agree with Ozzie in all!   

Hey who farted?

  

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This is just a little thank you for all of the various comments that my experiment had produced.  A special thanks to tda42 for pointing out that we are old Harley buddies.  He's still a rider, but I hung up my boots a long time ago.  I'm glad that tda42's mentioning that we are old Harley pals, has drawn several comments to such.

Tormentor... please note, the purpose of my post was a comparison between Poser Pros and Posetteforever.  This experiment was conducted as a comparison with respect to number of comments received.  The same image was posted at each site for this comparison.  I simply posted the results at this forum, to show the results of my experiment.

My experiment has nothing to do with the fact that one of the sites is a commercial site.  You are entitled to your opinion of commercial sites and so am I.  The fact that one of the sites is commercial, has nothing to do with my little experiment.  My purpose was simply to find out what kind of response I would receive at both sites.  The results of the experiment were posted here as I found them to be.  If you've taken my posting here as being negative in anyway, you are barking up the wrong tree.  If that be the case, then I suggest that you return to the original post and read it again.  If you find anything within my post suggesting that commercial sites suck and should be avoided, then I shall reward you accordingly.

I'm a little too old and far too ornery to let anyone put words into my mouth, or to insinuate that my purpose is anything other than what is stated.

Again, thanks to all for your comments.  As always, they are appreciated.

Ciao,
Phil

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pappino

Hi Phil,

Not meaning to take it the wrong way. I did understand what you were saying and it makes me proud of this little place that the results were the way they were and that you would post the results with us.

I just fell back into my own paradigm in my reply and was not trying to put words into your mouth (or post, as the case may be ).

Thanks for sharing with us here. And never fear, we'll not rope you into any political agendas... at least not until the thought police have had their lunch break...

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Computer Lie #1: You'll never use all that disk space.

"I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound as they fly by." - Douglas Adams

Vespas are ok but for a really good scooter you need a Lambretta GP   First vehicle I owned and I loved it

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Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here?

I don't think that anyone has said that commercial sites suck, me included.
They are there to make money, but have lost their focus as being communities devoted
to 3D art.   They should say that they are stores to buy products and nothing more.
 
Commercial sites are more concerned about sales and marketing the products of other artists
than the finished images of others or using the products.  Whether or not you use the products that you
purchased is of no concern.  As long as you are happy and keep buying, then that's all that
matters to the commercial sites.  Tormentor and others have said this many times.
What I have noticed as long as I was at PoserPros is that merchants comment on images with their products in them, other merchants and friends in the clique(s).

This is high school mentality.

There is also a large group that will ignore you if you can do something that they cannot.

On any of the sites that I have ever been on, this is the ONLY site where administrators will actually comment on images. You rarely, if ever, get that elsewhere.
Most of them won't even notice your existence unless you are unhappy with your "purchase".
Then, they notice you for a brief instant.

Since I never bought anything, I was never noticed...period.

Many, many good people have been turned off from Poser by the people in the commercial
sites and their behaviour.
They either quit or go elsewhere.

i have been to such places     i've even been to a couple sites that when i go to the help or tutorial sections in the forums with questions i've been told 'i dont have time to answer that question'.

... but you had the time... to tell me you didn't have time to help...?   why the heck bother commenting at all???  

it can be VERY discouraging.  sometimes and in some places people are so busy selling things, guarding 'trade secrets' and smooshing with their cliches it's hard to find a comfortable and helpful place.

speaking of 'trade secrets' i could start an entire rant on that subject, heh, but i'll save it for some other time.

i really want to get my mom into 3d/Poser, she's a digital art nut too, heh.  but her's it more of the signature tags and small 2d art communities kind of thing.  i've been telling her all about the cool things you can do with Poser and all the cool freebies items out there so all she'd need to purchase is a old copy of P4 (like i did, heh).   but she's very nervous about how people will treat her being completely new to the 3D universe and Poser.

i was concerned too until i found this place      can't wait until i get her all setup and then i'm gonna drag her in here.    

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i will enjoy the time i have

Sorry pappino, my reply to your message was:

Quote:

 Here we are about 20 active users, this is a little place and it's easy to see and appreciate the pictures. I don't know exactly why there are so many good persons here  ... It happened...

I'm only sorry for not commenting so much in the album, but usually I see and comment all the old pictures when I've the right mood  ...

What I wrote later was only a reply to Den Tracy, whose opinions is well known, I respect them even if I'm less radical, but anyway Den Tracy is a friend even if I know for sure that he eat children   ...

I'm not really interested in those kind of experiments Pappino, simply because Poserpros and Posetteforever are two very different sites and the result of the comparison can have only a little sense. We were only pointing on those differences: if not, I don't know what to discuss, the other option is: The people here are good, the people there suck, and I don't like those kind of discussion... So what's the point ? I don't understand... Poserpros users haven't commented your pics... and ??
What I can say anymore is only that we are a very little community so we use to see, appreciate and comment the pictures of all of us. Personally I've difficulties to see the whole album because I'm very busy in this period, but when I've enough free time I see and comment each picture. I'm sure that if our community will grow too much you wouldn't see so many comments under your pics only because there would be too many pictures.

I don't like to write an opinion on other sites, it could seem "unfair" and start "wars"... In any case I agree with Den's last reply, but Den, if you search in Poserpros you'll see in the older posts that they opened the place because they haven't agreed the commercial politics of Renderosity and the way the Renderosity's shop was ruled. As far as I know they never have been[i:e8052a2276] a community devoted
to 3D art [/i:e8052a2276]. I understand your feeling but they never lied, you (and me) simply misunderstood.

I liked the place in the first period, when there wasn't shops or banners but when they appeared I saw clearly that I simply thought in the wrong way and I believed in something that was real only in my head .  The image that I had was a place like this   so I simply built it  :bigrinnin:.

pbnj: The fact that in a commercial site all goes to the money is natural, moderators and admins are paid for their time, but, I repeat, there's nothing wrong, the place is there for money earning, you've to see the things in the right perspective and you'll be no more angry   We are waiting for your mom   !!

Paul Mon: Lambrettas are very rare and costs a lot $$$ !!!

Ozy: You're the wise man here, I think that's because you're living upside-down in Australia so the blood goes more easily to the brain   ...

... And I'm sorry that my english is so poor ! Sometime I has been misunderstood, I promise to open again my old english book from the school time and study more          

P.S.

... I had to finish a Posy picture   ... And I passed a lot of time on this post... >sigh!<

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