Just to know your opinion on leahman last picture. The usual, Hitler, Swastika, hammer and sickle. I was going to delete it but I want to know your opinion first.

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Two wrongs don't make a right.
But six left turns will get you around the block
and back in the driveway again.

I didn't have much time until now for a closer look on Robert's pic. I had another date at the hospital today ( Surgery will be next week, 25.01. I'll not be online for some days after that, can't say exactly when they'll let me go, depends...)
I'll be leaving for my mother soon. It's her birthday today    

As you might now by now Robert and me never will be friends, that's one thing.
Actually referring to this pic, I don't think Posetteforever is the place for historical glorification of the USA fighting against one mass murderer (Hitler) side by side with another one (Stalin), who was same as bad, at least (even in humorous way). That's nothing to be proud of IMHO
Another problem in this picture is the presence of the swastika (Hakenkreuz) The use of this symbol  as well as similar (SS-Runes, ...)
Is strictly forbidden here in Germany, even if it is used AGAINST fascism (I.e. even the well know "forbidden" traffic sign with it in it )
This page can get in big trouble here, as well as I can get just by visiting this site (theoretically)  

As it is clearly against site rules to abuse this place as a platform for political (and religious) messages, and Robert acts against them knowingly again and again, IMHO this pic should be deleted at least, I personally would plead for a ban (he's begging for it...)
This place would be nicer without him (but thats me...)

Don't get me wrong here. I'm FOR freedom of speech, I'm AGAINST any form of censorship. But there are other places to  show off. Everybody is free to open his (her) own blog, website etc. Where he (she) can do whatever they want. There are lot's of (free) offers.
But Posetteforever is NOT a place to fight wars.

P.S.: I moved it to "testing"

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I Will take care or it later on the train pm included

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I will delete the picture and no messages to him. I already warned him not to use that Hitler character and the swastica. I think he is trying to push the situation. He wants to be banned so he can rant and feel a victim of the atheist communists of PF. Next picture like that and he will be unable to connect to the site again. Here there are Germans and Italians. I don't like to be named mafioso or Mario, a German sure don't like to see the Germans named as krauts. Or I could begin a large and extensive serie on Rednecks, with the known reaction of leahman. This is a problem, the man don't understand or he is trolling on trhe site.

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Well I new my saying anything would go un-noticed. I agree I can't figure out what is going on with him but Runtime DNA doesn't seem to get it either. As a matter of fact they are saying nothing about the render because no one really knows just what it is really about. Andreas I am sorry this has upset you and I really wanted all to get a long but I see it will never happen. I don't really know the story with you guys in general and may never know. The south here has a scare of slavery that dwells deep into the souls of every Black American and will never let go. Even though I was born into the world I still get hit for it. But does it come to this also that even religion is played down with this as well. I know some have no belief in GOD and that is fine, but I have too. If he is real or false held my sanity together when all was lost because of my wife. How many more things will get taken out to make others happy. I just don't understand and yet I try. I just can't. This is not to say that this was something that needed an answer but we need to fix some things and not let this get into a problem again. If it is a German or Italian or anyone else you all are my friends but I feel I have had some of who I am taken away from me as well.  

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Two wrongs don't make a right.
But six left turns will get you around the block
and back in the driveway again.

Dear Kenny
I didn't start this thread, I hadn't even noticed the picture when I started reading here this morning.
I noticed your suggestion above, but I don't think it is solving the problem.
The problem is Robert trying to cause trouble from the very first days, years ago (I tried to warn Davide about this, but he wouldn't listen. He wanted to believe he would change by time)
I don't  have a problem especially with this recent pic, Johnny made one with a similar topic, about the bombed Berlin at the end of WW II (well done, neutral like a documentary and with a lot of Dorks )
I don't like Nazis, too. I don't like them at all. I don't like them because of what they did to our country and the world. And most of all I don't like them because they are stating: "We are the best, we are the truth, we are right, and we have it ('cos we got the biggest guns), and everybody else is wrong" Black or white view, like Robert himself. (No offense, but that makes them very similar to a lot of "religious" people out there)
But the world isn't divided in Good or Bad. NOBODY can claim the truth for himself, NOBODY knows what will be right in the end, NOBODY is perfect (IMHO not even God, it's invented by men)
Discussion about this topic will almost ever lead to trouble (as we see right here). Looking back in history, almost every war was about religion in one or another way (or about money, but that's just another religion). This is why Davide decided to rule religion and politics out of Posetteforever, way back.
To keep it as the calm, relaxing, peaceful place it was meant to be.
As I stated before, I am against censorship and for freedom of speech, but it has to happen in the right place, and this is not Posetteforever.
This mustn't be a place for troublemakers, and fire starters. That'd destroy our community.
There are thousands and thousands of boards out there, the WWW is HUGE, there are even forums EXCLUSIVELY for trolls...
Robert knows all this, but he doesn't care. He doesn't care about us. He doesn't understand what this site is about at all.
About Posette, Dork, art, beauty, friendship, and ... RELAXING
To keep it like this, we have to keep the trolls out, and also topics that could offend.
Kenny, I hope you understand all this right (If not, Robert has won...)
And I really hope we are through with this (we could have been years ago )

(maybe, even some of the people who left because of Robert will return...)

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Hi Andreas

  First of all if what you believe about God being man made is fine with me. But it is the other side of everyone else that says there is a God. When you don't believe then that is fine. It is still a religion. That is what the word means is belief. I am fine with that but I remember a time when we had it here and then it was gone. This place is for relaxing but it is also what one wants to do when they are relaxing. Some do want to make Angles and what ever. Even if I was like some I wouldn't care because whats the point. You don't believe it anyway. So why have it all your way. Meaning why is this sight the only one that will not allow religious renders in its sight? There is a playing field in all fairness to be had here. If you all want Robert banded then band him and take down and remove everything he was here. But you need to remove others as well because this would fall under the rules and fairness needs to be down with everything. Don't get me wrong Andreas, I like you , still do and always will but when we see things like this broken then something has failed a long time back and we need to either make the rules more flexible or modify them to invite more to come here. PF maybe if this leaked out about religion could really hurt this place because a lot of people still do believe in something just as you believe in no creator at all. A belief is a very powerful thing and yes you are right it caused a lot of stink but I don't think in today's way of looking at it to be as harmless as what is going on here. Now as for Robert you do what you feel you must. I just hope we all can put this back together because in deed it is a big mess. Take care Andreas my friend.

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Two wrongs don't make a right.
But six left turns will get you around the block
and back in the driveway again.

This is the reason why we should not even talk about politic and religion on PF . First of all it is totally useless, it's a waste of time. we take the religion of the place where we are born or the family that gave us birth. For only few religion is a free choice and for very few of them into this circle it really mean "religion". Religion is a matter of faith, faith can't be discussed so two individuals with a different religions and truely believeing in their respective faiths have only two chances: not talking about religion, talking of something else, or talk about religion and fight. Now, here, we're fighting. This is why this place is the only one where religion or non-religion can't be discussed, it can be discussed elsewhere, maybe on some battlefield, that is not my businness.

I'm not going to ban leahman, anyway he is trouble. I know the man very well, he is not a bad man but there is no way to come to term with him, there are not compromises, he is right, God is on his side giving him directions, the rest of the humanity is donkey. There is no alternative, there is not another solution.

Today I deleted the picture, tomorrow, on the next one, I'll simply do what I did in the past: I'll comment the picture out, he can't simply win the game because only few of what he writes about history is accurate. Even that Shligruber or the family name of Adolf Hitler before he was recognized by his father is illogical. War is simply a dirty matter, the normal people are the ones that fight it, if the normal people could talk like we talk, there would be no wars. But everyone is glued to their believing and they never realise how much they are controlled by someone else.

I am not a patriot, but it is my choice, people like Robert confuse the fact that I was in the special corps with patriotism and when I say that I did it only for my own (sick) amusement they don't understand, like when I say that I did something good not because was written in thousands years old book but because it was simply the right thing to do. Without the patriotism and religion I was considered difficult to control during the army time, because I could even refuse an order, I would have never fired to a civilian (because it's not sport) and maybe turn the weapon against the one that gave the order, but normally the soldiers, whatever is the country, do it without problems, they are justified by their ministers and by their country because they are with the right God and with the right Flag.

There is a specific difference between Janreinar's pictures and Robert's picture (and even Alcide's), they are representation of a historycal event, leahman's pictures are the glorification of one side, on one side is all white, on the other side is all black. Unfortunately the real history is not like that, and I know some of it. There are contradictions everywhere, it's not so simple. I don't even want to talk about it, in any case, that leahman's picture trespassed the level of the historical documentation falling into taking a party, and a party is politic.

It's very late here, I need to sleep. Don't worry Kenny, Robert won't be banned, I'll take care of him from now on.

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an another problem still seems to be the language barrier .
This isn't about religion, it's about trolls.
The problem is, politics and religion are topics to feed trolls. People can get easily offended.
The www is world wide (surprise! ), and we have lots of different religions, and different political opinions out there.
I.e. Somebody, without thinking something bad, shows a Christian themed render of Columbus reaching America, and an Indian from the upper Orinoco gets offended, because Christian culture destroyed his own (hey, that is REALLY just an example), and you got the trolls running.
A crucifix ( a nice catholic one, with a Jesus figure on it) would be classified as "Guro" (that's gore) on a Japanese board.
Similar with politics. See the problem?
To keep this kind of trouble off this site, the only solutions is to avoid this topics.
It is important, that they (Columbus and the Orinoco Indian) sort it out in a maybe heavy discussion, but Posetteforever is not the right place for this. There are more than enough places to do this, but it is not here.
Robert keeps ignoring this since years, permanently, knowingly ( you know, Davide has talked to him about this often), and he ignores it on purpose. That makes him a troll, and that's why it wouldn't be his first ban (he isn't banned here, yet, but it's only a matter of time, I'm afraid)
Sleep well now I'm very tired, been a complicated day, couldn't even enjoy the birthday party at my Mum's

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I think it will be not necessary, it should be ebough a couple of accurate comments, but I also think that he will have to go so I can understand a decision like that.

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This is a cross post, of a kind. Been typing above while you posted your's (I'm slow... )
->

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No problem, good night , simply added that I'll be with your decision in any case and eventually take care of it myself

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I think this is what I got the Admin job for, in first place

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Its ok my friend. Its not like I am mad or anything its that I am trying to make it right with everyone. So don't worry about it Andreas. I see that he is tipping the scales a bit. So I will leave it up to you guys (meaning Davide and yourself) on what to do with this. I am sure you will come up with something and it will be back to normal.   I will say this and nothing more. I just read Davide's post from above and I feel if you think Robert will keep on with this then I have no worries about letting him go. I mean I don't go for people gunning people down with their history. The South here is that way. Very bitter to have lost the war and is why it still is embedded in the hearts of many. It to me is a very sad thing. I am from the North and my heart will always be a part of the state Michigan. AS for religion it is like Davide says it is a belief. But i won't fight about it. Andreas for the most and all of the others who don't believe in God is ok with me. I simply expect some respect as I do with the ones who say there is no God and it was created by man. If in the future we build our on Utopia is fine with me. If it be regeneration of the body and we are given the chance to discover it then that is great and we have found our own heaven on Earth. If I find myself to know longer live and I am laying in the ground cold and lifeless then it doesn't matter. I will never know nor will I care. Hope is all we have and if some of the population of the world doesn't want to believe in God then its fine. I get along with Davide and what he believes all the time. I expect him to do the same and respect my way of thinking as well because in the end it won't matter because with the way it is going none of use will be around to tell it to each others faces. So I ask you to think about it. If it is in Poser and is a render to show hope to the world then why not for the sake of art? With the language barrier and texting it is hard for all of us to express what we are truly feeling and all I am saying is it's just art and that is all. This is all I am going to say and we all know where we stand. I have a different way of looking at things and what you think I know about religion you might be a bit surprise. Davide knows this. Andreas you are doing a good job and it is a shame it has come down on you. I wish you guys would get a long but I know this will never happen so it is not your fault. I have seen this with him in the past and I still think that he has some problems with his health that makes him this way. One day he is fine and the next he is out of control. So I don't know if it is him or the medicines he takes that control his mood but I have seen this before from others as well. So if it continues I guess he will have to move on because it just makes it to a point to where the site is useless anymore. My question is where do we go from here? Do we just simply tell people no more military and no more shoot em ups? No violence because this is a place to relax?   No Civil War renders because it offends the south in America? This is what I am trying to focus on. It is what has made our lives so complicated. There are a lot of things that reflect with others. Davide is about Posy. You are about making morphs and cute characters, also Well in Dow characters. (No problem there. LOL!) Myself with Super Heroes and Science Fiction. But then like religion no action with Indians, Blacks, or anything with history in general. We all see it as racism or religious. So maybe we need to bring this out in the open. Show the rules on the front board and list no history or religious renders and then I will be happy because it is spelled out for people like that and then they have a choice to not come here. This is my thought so we shall see if you really want this on the site. But you must post it in plain sight and not let people who don't look at the rules guess at it all. I know when you read a contract or sign an agreement you don't look at the fine print because people feel it is a waste of time to get on with our lives to have fun. So we sign it and agree not knowing the consequences. This my friends is what we get. I want you both to think about this. Not the religion but what I have said in the past sentences. As I said it is up to you guys but you have to have the rules out there if you are to get what you want out of this in these rules.    As I said this is the last time I will speak. I have said enough and it is more than some with suggestions. When something goes bad we site back and wonder is it something that we need to fix? Was it our fault the rules where not posted clearly enough? Remember we all come from different countries and what you guys think about the rules may not be seen from another s way of speech and thought. Do they need to be changed? We do this in politics all the time. Germany, Italy and America to suit not us but for the site and the people who come here. But I am the kind that will tell you what I think and to me this is the best. Changes and customize  the rules and not buy this site own default because it is not us and put it out for display for all who will oppose it. Now we can all relax.

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Two wrongs don't make a right.
But six left turns will get you around the block
and back in the driveway again.